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(Weak) Oppose, a random talkshow host? Nah. f o x 09:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
More than a random talkshow host. He is said to be the person who revolutionized Irish radio. He was considered to be an 'institution'. His programme broke many taboos and was respected by many. Chris Evans from the BBC expressed sadness along with the Taoiseach (Prime Minister) and President of Ireland. (If anyone cares, there is a substantial update) — Cargoking talk 11:39, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Support since there is a more than substantial update and the opposition's arguments are, with all due respect in this case, unconvincing. His death apparently brought an entire country "to a standstill". Also, the book of condolence signed by hundreds of people on day one alone, reactions from politicians, including current and former heads of state and government. International coverage, for example, in The Vancouver Sun, The Guardian, Australia's Herald Sun, Times of Malta and The Daily Telegraph. It is my belief that this is the death of someone who had a significant contribution/impact on the country/region and was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such (even by broadcasters outside his own country). This person was in the middle of a highly successful decades-long career on national radio, appealed to several generations, had presented their last show less than 24 hours before their death and was not expected to retire any time soon. At the very least they are not "a random talkshow host" if the reaction is anything to go by. But I don't expect this to lead anywhere. --candle•wicke 19:41, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Alright, I've made it weak. I still don't believe he's a big enough loss to warrant inclusion. f o x 22:05, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Sorry, I just don't see the significance. Modest Geniustalk 00:44, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as premature. The bill won't become law until the Senate passes it (which is seen as highly likely,, but you never know). Will support when it actually becomes law. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:36, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose As per above. --yousaf465 09:16, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Goldman Sachs
I hesitate to nominate this since an ill-timed "renomination" took place yesterday; however, there has now been a real development, so I thought I'd throw it out there...
In the original discussion a significant portion of the opposition was based on it being a civil case only. That is no longer the case. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure. I'm a lot less averse to the idea now that there's a criminal case, but I'd be inclined to wait fir the outcome of any litigation. That said, I'm not a huge fan of that rule and this could take years to conclude and is news now. All things considered, neutral for the minute. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:28, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Oppose unless/until there's a conviction. Modest Geniustalk 20:32, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Oppose DoJ can investigate anything; I'd be likely to support an indictment in this case, but not just the opening of a probe. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 20:36, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support this is a huge story regardless of whether a conviction happens or not.--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Actually I'm inclined to agree with Brad- an investigation doesn't mean much, but I could get behind posting an indictment despite the convention for only posting the results of litigation. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't think most ITN people understand the way this works. The major impact comes when the story first breaks, which in this case was last week with the SEC lawsuit. Today's news from the Justice Department, while significant, is not the key thing -- I believe the US attorney's office said they always review high-profile cases like this to see if it falls under their jurisdiction. (Although if it gives us reason to finally put the Goldman thing up, so much the better.) There's probably not going to be a conviction. Goldman is probably going to come to a settlement with the SEC in which it will pay a fine and probably make no admission of wrongdoing. That will have far less of an impact on the markets and on government than last week's announcement of the SEC lawsuit. It was the charges that led to the evaporation of billions of dollars in market value and that got Congress all worked up. That's why pretty much the entire world media made it such a huge story and why Goldman executives were testifying to Congress on live TV the other day. When the settlement comes, it will be "old news" and probably not have nearly the same impact. We should have these things on ITN when the break (assuming there's quality Wikipedia content to link to), because that's when people will be coming to Wikipedia searching for information on the topic. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:43, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I'm with HJM and Brad on this. I think our rules for court cases are a bit too strict, and I could support posting the notice of a formal indictment, but a simple "police" invesigation is not enough. Goldman Sachs is not a living person, so BLP doesn't strictly apply, but the presumption of innocence in criminal prceedings is not there for nothing! Physchim62(talk) 00:07, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment the point here is NOT that Goldman Sachs is guilty or innocent. the reason i think it belongs because it meets WP:ITN & is a very significant 'news' story 'widely' reported by world media and likely to be of interest to readers 'all over the world'. I tried to actually look up how widely this was reported and here is what I came up
Oppose We never highlight criminal cases unless a verdict has been reached. HonouraryMix (talk) 07:41, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per HonouraryMix and the fact that it's just opened. We can't set the precedent of putting every opened case up. f o x 09:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per the many users above who have stated that we only list verdicts on ITN and not charges --Daviessimo (talk) 16:19, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Support I have no idea where the 'we only post verdicts' thing is coming from, a far as I'm concerned, we post it when it's in the news, which seems to be right now. Random89 18:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Expo 2010 Shanghai China
Expo 2010 Shanghai China. Every significant news agency will show the expo. This picture is good for the main page of en.wikipedia.org . --Dialogue.zh (talk) 06:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
We have this item down below with good enough support.--yousaf465 07:01, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I removed your picture from this page. It is copyrighted and fair use is only allowed in articles (and then in a limited set of circumstances) - Dumelow (talk) 08:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Interesting discovery, though the article could use a little work- another paragraph or two would be nice. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - unfortunately the discovery was announced back on April 9, so its too stale to post at this point. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:38, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I added some more info to the article. I just found out about this subject today, and I do hope that the lateness of my nomination does not prevent it from being included. Rabbit Seasoning (talk) 02:59, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
ITN items go up in reverse chronological order. Unfortunately this item is older than the oldest one currently on the template, so can't go up. I would encourage you to take it to WP:DYK though. Modest Geniustalk 20:50, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose If you can add another 1,249 characters of prose, it will work well as a DYK hook, but it is a little too stale for ITN at this point, sorry. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 08:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Nom: article will need a bit of work (which I'll do tomorrow if no one else does it first), but this appears to be a highly significant drug approval. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:49, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support its the first cancer vaccine approved by the FDA.--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:56, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Maybe not as significant as DCA, but a major step forward in cancer research approval. ~AH1(TCU) 23:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment: article is updated and ready to go. The Wall Street Journal says "The approval of Provenge is a dramatic development in the fight against cancer and could pave the way for a host of similar therapies" 20 --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:25, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Support as above, this is a big step forward. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 12:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose, a treatment that costs 93,000 USD and extends someone's life four months? Calling this a vaccine is a little strange- not in a clinical sense- but in the traditional layman's understanding of a treatment that prevents disease. It's not the "first cancer vaccine", just the first of its type, and in general, I'm against putting commercial stories such as this on the main page- it serves to give even more free publicity to the company. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 12:14, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose If it really costs $100k and only extends people's life by 4 months its not that impressive or value for money for anyone but the very rich. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 12:52, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't think the cost is very relevant. The first of anything is usually very expensive, and many existing cancer treatments cost in excess of 10,000 per month, so the cost is not excessively out of line with existing treatments. --ThaddeusB (talk) 13:44, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment this really is the first commercially available cancer vaccine. the theoretical concept that it may be possible to immunize your body against cancer has been around for a hundred years. this is the first time it has been shown to work. hopefully it will lead to new category of cancer therapeutics. to put the survival statistics in perspective few treatments for advanced cancer have been shown to prolong life by 4 months on the average. the cost though stunning for non US readers is par for the course in US. would we have rejected an ITN item in 1903 about Wright Flyer just because it flew 125 feet in its first flight ?--Wikireader41 (talk) 13:22, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Except to most non-technical readers, Gardasil was the first. (Yes, I know, not really, it's an HPV vaccine not a cancer one. But to the average layman...) --Bradjamesbrown (talk) 13:30, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Gardasil is a vaccine to prevent a viral infection (HPV) which in some cases may lead to cancer. Hepatitis B vaccine was the first vaccine against a virus which can cause cancer Hepatocellular carcinoma. BTW Gardasil has not been proven to prolong survival by even one minute.--Wikireader41 (talk) 16:12, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose fortunately, nobody was killed in this attack. Also, these seem to happen every week in China. ~DCTalk To Me 19:42, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Sounds serious enough despite the lack of death. --candle•wicke 20:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose Even if there were any death, the event is not notable beyond novelty. FixmanPraise me 23:52, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose on the basis that there have been three attacks of a similar nature in the space of a week (another one occurring this morning 21) --Daviessimo (talk) 09:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose The one of these to post would have been the eight deaths last month; these are too common and too individually-insignificant at this point. The only thing that might work at the point would be something like 2010 school stabbings in the People's Republic of China. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:27, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Strongest support - this is the largest world's fair, possibly event, in history. The opening ceremony will happen in a few hours. Many heads of states will be there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyperspacing (talk • contribs)
Support - although I believe it doesn't actually open until tomorrow. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:07, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Happens 30 Apr., which is today in the PRC. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 19:15, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Yes but it doesn't open at midnight :-p --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:17, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support this seems like a big deal. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Strong support. This should be in ITN/R. Roast chicken costs 1160 Yuan each! ~AH1(TCU) 23:55, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Agreed that this should be a regular posting. For those who are interested: big ones like the this universal expo in Shanghai are held every 5 years. A smaller specialized expo is held in between those five years. by Hyperspacing
Support Can't say more.--yousaf465 02:13, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Note: The event doesn't officially open until Friday night in China (several hours from now). As such, lets hold off on posting "Expo 2010 opens" until it actually does. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:35, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support - significant event so definitely ITN worthy, although I agree with Thaddeus that we should wait until it officially opens before we post it --Daviessimo (talk) 09:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. The opening ceremony has begun. May I suggest this photo of the Expo Axis main building as a front page picture? Arsonal (talk) 14:13, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Yes, this is good for the front page.--Dialogue.zh (talk) 16:45, 1 May 2010 (UTC)reply
I have removed the item. The Expo 2010 article has not been updated at all; it still looks like the event will be happening in the future, even in the "Opening ceremony" section. -- tariqabjotu 15:41, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Noting that I updated the article and Tariqabjotu re-added the item. Cenarium (talk) 18:24, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oil slick in Gulf of Mexico
The US Coastguard has started a "controlled burning" of an oil slick almost the size of Jamaica in the Gulf of Mexico in the aftermath of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig explosion.(BBC)
I know we featured the original incident, but this seems a highly unusual event, it's being compared to the fires in the aftermath of the first Gulf War and is attracting a lot of media attention not just in the US. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:15, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. especially since the US military seems to have been called in to help.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Just coming across that Gov. Jindal has declared a state of emergency in Louisiana, and that the spill may reach land Friday evening. SupportBradjamesbrown (talk) 17:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. I've seen the US Coast Guard describe it as the largest oil containment effort they've ever undertaken. (Not yet, the largest spill by number of gallons, but it covers a huge swath of ocean.) Dragons flight (talk) 17:50, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support, significant spill and the article looks good. Modest Geniustalk 19:17, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support, Perhaps somehow include the US Military involvement in the feed, and perhaps the fact that the leak is still uncontrolled? I'm not sure how long is too long for these things, these are just thoughts. It should go up in some form regardless.Aalox (talk) 19:27, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. SWAT teams have been sent in. The spill is five times larger than previously thought and could take months to cap off completely. A hurricane in a few months' time could seriously damage the surrounding areas with oil. ~AH1(TCU) 23:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Surprised this isn't up already. That blob is now bigger than Rhode Island. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Posted While I think the inclusion of the size of the spill looks a bit unwieldy on ITN, I think it's extremely important to the story; hence, I put it in. -- tariqabjotu 00:21, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't think that size is correct, actually. The Telegraph says, "The slick is estimated to cover an area 105 miles by 45 miles, or 4700 square miles." That would be true if the slick were a rectangle, but it's not. The Wall Street Journal and CNN are saying 600 square miles (actually not as big as Rhode Island). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:38, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Links? On what date? Because that's a significant difference. Even if it's not taking up the full 105 mi by 45 mi area, 600 sq miles is practically nothing of that. A lot of sources also mention "almost the size of Jamaica", which is much closer to 4700 sq. mi. -- tariqabjotu 00:55, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
CNN: "Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal on Thursday declared a state of emergency ahead of the oil slick's arrival, warning it covered as much as 600 square miles of water."
Wall Street Journal (from 7:51 p.m. Eastern tonight): "The slick spans about 600 square miles."
If you look at photos (as in the WSJ article) you can see the slick takes up only a small portion of the 105 mile by 45 mile "rectangle" you would draw from its greatest north-south and east-west distances. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The bit should imo be reworded to make mention of the oil reaching the coast, controlled burning is not that significant. Suggestion: "The oil spill resulting from the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico reaches Louisiana coast." Cenarium (talk) 15:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
No objection here if you want to go ahead and do it- the blurb's probably a little outdated now. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:33, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Israeli soldiers open fire on protesters who approached the Israeli border from Gaza, killing a 20-year-old Palestinian man. The Israeli military says the demonstrators were throwing stones at soldiers and setting fires. (Haaretz)(New York Times)(Al Jazeera)(Press TV)
China was stripped of a bronze medal in women's team gymnastics in Sydney for using an underage athlete. Controversy that has been around, really big in 2008. US will now take the medal. NYT. Grsz11 12:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose That this took a decade is the story, not that it happened. The People's Republic cheated, got caught, and because they had the 2008 Games just now is getting called on it. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 14:18, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Nom. There was strong support to post a joint memorial of the Katyn Massacre by Polish and Russian officials but that was probably bumped off by the Polish president's plane crash. I submit this event as a good hook to the Katyn massacre, which has been a key issue in Poland–Russia relations.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It should be noted that they were declassified and put in the national archives in 1992. They have just digitised them and put them on the web - Dumelow (talk) 19:37, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
That's correct. The move is primarily symbolic, but an important gesture.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:40, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. The Katyn massacre is now probably more familiar to most people due to recent events. --candle•wicke 20:11, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. As I recall, it probably would have gone up if it hadn't been overshadowed by the plane crash, which, quite rightly, bumped it off. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?
Oppose - The only justification to publish this minor document release seems to be that the previous (much more significant) gesture got overshadowed. IMO, that is not a good enough reason to post this. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:46, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per ThaddeusB. --PlasmaTwa2 21:46, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Even without the plane crash, the release of these documents would likely still have been siginficant. ~AH1(TCU) 22:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per ThaddeusB. Putting them on the web is not news. De-classifying them in 1992 was news.--Chaser (talk) 16:56, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I'm throwing this out there for debate. It's making headlines across the country. The article could probably use a better update though. ~DCTalk To Me 16:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Neutral, leaning towards support. It is an interesting item, but I'm not entirely sold on it. It doesn't seem all that groundbreaking to me. --PlasmaTwa2 17:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose, seems overly local to me, and not a particularly significant installation in world terms (although it's larger than any wind farm currently operating, several are under construction already that will be bigger by the time Cape Wind opens). Plus the opening/inauguration would be better than the political approval. Modest Geniustalk 17:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
maybe when it actually opens. It would be a lot better to say first offshore wind farm has opened rather than approved. -- Ashish-g55 17:40, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per Ashish. A lot can happen between approval and actually opening. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I agree with "the late Senator Edward Kennedy". The BBC is only able to find seven sentences to write about this? "This project fits with the tradition of sustainable development in the area" and "State Governor Deval Patrick has argued the farm is key to local efforts" suggest this is exactly that. --candle•wicke 20:08, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - "nation's" first, yeah, but Denmark and stuff already have hundreds. Not internationally important by a long shot. f o x 20:19, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. More or less per Fox. If it was the biggest or had some other extraordinary claim to notability, I'd be fully in support, but one offshore windfarm is a little underwhelming. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support -- Example of quality Wikipedia content? √. Literally in the news? √. Of interest to many readers? √. Encyclopedic? √. Seems to meet all the criteria to me. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:37, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It's the 'Of interest to many readers' bit that has the problem. There's nothing special about this wind farm, so it won't interest many people. Besides, the ITN criteria are not as simplistic as you imply. Modest Geniustalk 01:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
That's a pretty heavily populated area up there in a part of the world where a lot of people use the English Wikipedia, so I think it would be of interest to many readers. And I kind of think the article wouldn't be the subject of as many news stories as it is if they didn't think it was interesting to a lot of people. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:30, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose Although this is great initiative from a Nation too dependent on blood oil and black coal, but I don't think we need this on ITN. Even-though I'm big fan of Wind and solar power but again I think we can leave our personal preferences.--yousaf465 02:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose also per fox. That the U.S. is going to build something that other countries already have built isn't all that significant. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 06:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Haiti drops kidnapping charges against U.S. missionaries detained for trying to take children out of the country after the January earthquake. (USA Today)
The Metropolitan Police in London publish a long suppressed report on the 1979 death of Blair Peach which concludes that a police officer was probably responsible for his killing. (BBC)(Report)
Nom. This is the second most significant ice hockey league after the NHL. It is an international league with teams in 4 countries and players from over 10 countries.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:16, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't think I understand a word in that sentence. -- tariqabjotu 15:18, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Russia (and other former Eastern Block nations) has funny names for sports clubs. AK Bars is an Ice Hockey team from Kazan, a city in Russia. HC MVD means Hockey Club of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (essentially the club is backed financially by the police--not an unusual practice in Russia). KHL means Kontinental Hockey League. Of course, all this would be explained in the linked articles.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:43, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose not that significant. ~DCTalk To Me 15:29, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
support per Johnsemlak -- Ashish-g55 15:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
To add some context here, the KHL was created when the Russian Superleague expanded into three neighboring countries (It has a team in Riga, Latvia, Minsk, Belarus and Astana, Kazakhstan) and 21 teams in Russia. It's definitely a lower level league than the NHL but it does have a number of NHL-caliber players. I would compare this item to the Nippon Professional Baseball, the Japanese Baseball League. We posted the winner of that in a single blurb along with the MLB champion last year.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support per Johnsemlak. --PlasmaTwa2 16:27, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Weak support as an international competition, though I'm not finding any real evidence of interest outside the CIS. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 16:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose doesn't seem terribly significant and I opposed the IPL below (though if I had to choose between the two, this wins hands down). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:42, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose, even as a big ice hockey fan (and player) myself. We currently have two hockey stories per year (stanley cup, and olympics/world champs); I'm not sure we could justify a third. This would indeed be the best option if we did decide on three. Modest Geniustalk 17:42, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support since there's apparently support for a third ice hockey item.Modest Geniustalk 19:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Neutral since now there isn't any. I'll stop changing my !vote now! Modest Geniustalk 16:41, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose per Modest Genius. Grsz11 17:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support, with admission of bias as a huge hockey fan. This has the international significance everyone here loves. The captain of Russia's national team from the olympics is on the championship team. Random89 17:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support - 2nd most important professional league after the NHL. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:47, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose this is nowhere near populariity/commercial success of IPL. if we dont think that is deserving of ITN certainly this is not --Wikireader41 (talk) 20:08, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
That makes it eight supports. I think that's enough for it to be posted? I'll add this to ITNR as well. --PlasmaTwa2 00:36, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Don't. There's significant opposition. f o x 20:24, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It looks like the supporters have given a stronger argument for inclusion to me. Most of the opposition is based around the IPL not being posted. --PlasmaTwa2 01:34, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose: Just few days back there was nomination for IPL season 3 and it was turned down saying the quality of league is not good. I would certainly like to know how come suddenly the same argument does not feature in this case? I suppose both games - ice hockey & cricket have limited presence across globe (as compared to soccer & tennis). Both the nominations are league games - ice hockey one gets passed through why not IPL? --GPPande 08:13, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Another point for opposing IPL nomination was the league had no interest outside Indian Sub-continent (let me remind you - it consists of 4 major cricket playing nations) and still considered unimportant. As compared to that - Gagarin Cup is played only in Russia. I think there should be detail discussion on this matter. --GPPande 08:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Well I would suspect the main difference is that in Ice Hockey the NHL and KHL are the two primary leagues and we already list one so there a valid argument to list the other. With twenty20 cricket the IPL is one of several domestic Twenty20 cricket leagues/cup and including the IPL by itself is, well, just like including the NHL without the KHL. --Daviessimo (talk) 08:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't get what you mean by primary league? Is it based on fan following or revenues or most number teams participating in league/cup? If that is so then IPL satisfies all those criteria while other Twenty20 leagues do not. I think IPL is the most important Twenty20 league after the Twenty20 World Cup. --GPPande 13:37, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The KHL and the NHL are not the "two primary leagues". The NHL is the sole primary league. Just because the KHL considers itself a competitor doesn't actually make it a reality. --Smashvilletalk 13:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Do we also include the Japan Series champion because it's the second largest professional baseball league? We don't include the champions of the World Juniors, which is a more important hockey championship, so why should we include a championship from the glorified Russian Superleague unless we also include the champions from the other major leagues in Europe - notably, SM-liiga, Elitserien andCzech Extraliga? --Smashvilletalk 13:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Last year we posted the winner of the Japan series, as I noted above. It was included alongside the World Series winner in the same blurb.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:16, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
@GPPanda--Would you support this item if the IPL champion were also posted? Btw, the KHL does have 3 of it's 24 teams outside Russia.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:16, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I am not against any sport/cup/league games. All I am saying is similar rules should apply to KHL as were applied for IPL. Also, to your second point, last year - IPL was moved to South Africa because India did not provide security for the event due to General Elections. IPL does have huge fan following even outside the subcontinent especially in South Africa & UK. Last year this venue shifting news was posted on ITN. See here. Also, this might surprise you, but IPL winners for 2009 were also posted. See here. The what changed in 2010 to block IPL on ITN? Answer is simple, quality of the league/cup came into picture. So either the new rule be dropped for both IPL & KHL (in that case both be featured) OR KHL should not be featured. --GPPande 10:21, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
If we posted the Japan Series then I'll change to support. --Smashvilletalk 16:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Reconsideration of previously rejected matters
Arizona immigration law
Not to beat a dead horse, but in addition to condemnation from President Obama, we've not got a boycott brewing against Arizona and Mexico putting out a travel advisory to its citizens warning of "an adverse political atmosphere" for its citizens in the state. Also, an voters' initiative campaign to repeal the law may be beginning. I think this is still fresh enough to put up (maybe not on top) if we want to reconsider. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Goldman Sachs
I think we really dropped the ball on this one, but we have an opportunity to put things right with the company's CEO today denying wrongdoing to a US Senate committee. This could give us an excuse to put up a Goldman item now if we wanted to. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose both. The first is too local, the second is not that fantastic or surprising given the recession as I said below. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't want to restart the debate... but how is the Goldman thing "not that ... surprising given the recession?" Fraud (what Goldman is accused of) happens during good times and bad. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
And I'd like to point out: Google News hits for Goldman -- more than 5,000, and still it's the top story there and in many of the world's media. Google news hits for waragi -- less than 100. I know that's not the only criterion but holy cow, this is getting surrealisticly absurd. The name of the page is "In the news" people. "In the news." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
And what the heck, I'll mention this now because I never got a chance to respond to the accusations that the Arizona story was "too local" below. The Arizona story is not a local story anymore. It's a national, indeed international, story, with non-Arizona politicians like John McCain, Jeb Bush and the head of the California Senate weighing in. It is far less "local" of a story than the Austrian election or the latest clash in Darfur (tragic but not really news according to the "Man bites dog" theory). Oh, and the Arizona story has more than 7,700 Google News hits. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Non-Arizona politicians like Arizona Senator John McCain? -- tariqabjotu 00:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oh, that's right, he does represent the Grand Canyon State. I meant that he's not a state-level pol. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
So a few Mexicans don't like it and a few big shot DC politicians are weighing in. So what? By the time anything comes of it (other than words) everybody will have forgotten and last time I looked on various news websites, some guy opting to be shot instead of a lethal injection was getting much more attention. As to Goldman, I'm confused now since people seem to have been arguing for the inclusion of a civil lawsuit, a drop in market value and now fraud. I can't support a nomination if I don't know what it's for, but I oppose the civil case (because it civil, not criminal) and I oppose the market value line. Also, Google news hits are a very inaccurate measure, especially for American stories because the American media is simply larger than that of any other country. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Both the Arizona story and the Goldman story were the top stories across nearly the entire U.S. national media, and some of the international media, when I proposed them. And I just checked my TV, and they were talking about Goldman on almost all of the news channels. As I mentioned on the talk page (where, as usual, hardly anyone noticed), if something is a big deal to The New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, LA Times, USA Today, Associated Press, NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN, I think we can assume that it has enough importance and interest for ITN. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough in explaining why the Goldman charges were important. I used the drop in the company's stock price to show the impact of the charges, but it was the charges themselves, not the drop in the stock price, that was the story and continues to be the story. But if you think that it's normal for a company of Goldman's size to drop more than 10% in a day, you're completely wrong. Regarding Google hits: It's true that the US has the largest media in the English-speaking world, but that's because most native English speakers, just like most English Wikipedia users, are American. There's nothing wrong with featuring more US items than items from any one other country. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I'm neutral on both matters, leaning to support on the Arizona one. I'd just like to reply to Mwalcoff saying that there isn't anything wrong with featuring more US items because most users are from America. I don't believe that that is entirely correct, because that argument would never work for another country. If someone came on here and said we should be able to put on a few more British and Canadian items (because they are the second and third largest nationalities of viewers) - not as many as America, mind you, but a few more than normal - quite frankly, it wouldn't fly. --PlasmaTwa2 00:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
(edit conflict) I never said we should have more US items just to have more US items, although I think adjusting our standards so as to not exclude so many highly prominent national US items would make sense. And I have argued in favor of more UK and Canadian items. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:36, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
would Support both. If these stats are to be believed WP page views by Country US is certainly where most of our audience is. However it would seem that it would be very politically incorrect for me as an American to say that we should carry more stories from US in ITN. as it is Americans are thought to be arrogant and self centered ;-)--Wikireader41 (talk) 00:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
So let me get this straight mwalcoff. by your analysis only news that either happens in america or world news that matters to americans (a lot) should be posted? btw oppose to both for reasons already discussed in previous discussions. -- Ashish-g55 00:54, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
That is not what I said at all, and if you were to read what I posted on the talk page it would be very clear that that is not what I meant. I said an item that is nearly unanimously considered a top story by the entire U.S. national media should be deemed to have met the "importance" criterion for an ITN item. At no point did I say those are the only things that should be posted. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
the newspapers you listed are all american newspapers and obviously they will all cover the same topics (that is how newspapers normally work). So every single national news and quite a bit of local would be covered by all every single day (can prove it quite easily too). if its not they wouldnt be called newspapers. and in talk page you said items that are given "extremely" prominent coverage by the national media of the UK, Canada or Australia. So if its that extreme then most likely it also matters to americans... So yes ur analysis indirectly does mean what i've said above. -- Ashish-g55 01:17, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Run-of-the-mill items are not given highly prominent play by the entire U.S. national media. It generally takes a pretty big deal to be the top story everywhere. It's different in Canada, when something like the shooting of a police officer in Winnipeg can be the top story in the Globe & Mail, National Post and CBC and CTV national news broadcasts. That's why we need to require a higher level of prominence for a story in the Canadian media before we can say, "That must be important enough for ITN." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
First one is bit "not so international" and second one well it did trigged the crisis if I'm correct.--yousaf465 07:47, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose both, just as I did the first time around. Arizona is a local story, and Goldman is politicians playing politics, both full of sound and fury but rather lacking on concrete effects. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 11:57, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose as they are just a condemnation from President Obama and a denial of wrongdoing to a committee from the United States. --candle•wicke 20:21, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. The Arizona immigration law is not just a local story. The Guardian has run one or more stories on it every day this week, see these search results. Le Monde has run stories on it here and here. China Daily has run several stories on it, see the top entries of this search list. And so on. The article itself includes citations from newspapers from India, Israel, England, and Canada, as well as from all over the United States. The article itself is quite solid, I think most editors would agree. Wasted Time R (talk) 03:38, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. The first is a story which has received international attention, and the second is part of the travails of a global company which has affected markets internationally. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 06:05, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose Just because a story has received international attention, doesn't mean it's notable. The immigration law concerns, directly, one state in one country. This isn't a law directly covering, say, the whole of the United States or the European Union. Goldman Sachs, to quote someone else above, is "politicians playing politics". HonouraryMix (talk) 09:04, 30 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Greek bonds downgraded to Junk
Greek bonds downgraded to junk status. 1st EU country to have this happen.(BBC)--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:42, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support - we could do with combining this with Greece's request for financial help from the E.U., which was nominated a couple of days ago --Daviessimo (talk) 18:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support, naturally. Agreed too with Davie. f o x 19:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment, as I read it, this is only one of the ratings agencies which has downgraded as far as junk status. Still, it is an ongoing story, and probably a significant one. Physchim62(talk) 21:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Even if it's only one agency, it's far from an everyday event, especially for developed country and EU member. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. We should mention stocks dropping in Europe and the US (and probably in Asia tonight), as well as the simultaneous downgrade of Portugal by two levels. I think we need some kind of a kicker to help explain why this is important, since most people (at least in America) would say, "Greece? So what?" -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
i dont think americans are that self-centered as you make it sound. An EU country's bond being downgraded to junk is important enough. i dont think we need to supplement by saying stocks went down 1-2%. which happens on almost daily basis for one reason or another. But i do agree with Daviessimo and support for combining it with the EU loan request since thats a consistent major news. -- Ashish-g55 22:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Nom: Significant accomplsihment. Article will need as bit of work, but I'll address that later today. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 13:39, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment - There is a dispute over whether she actually reached the peak of one of the 14, which could be problematic --Daviessimo (talk) 18:54, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Sierra Leone introduces free healthcare for women and children
(BBC). Sierra Leone has introduced free healthcare for pregnant and breast-feeding women and children under five. A big step in a country with the highest under five mortality rate in the world. Healthcare in Sierra Leone would seem a good target article - Dumelow (talk) 11:07, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support though unfortunately I don't have any time to perform the update. --candle•wicke 20:14, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - good news for Sierra Leone women and children, but I'm not seeing much international significance. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Maybe not as significant as the American move, but significant nevertheless. ~AH1(TCU) 22:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Thousands of demonstrators, smoke bombs, eggs and umbrellas, punches and handkerchiefs. This does not sound like an ordinary day of work. --candle•wicke 20:22, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment--we already posted the agreement between Russia/Ukraine on the Sevastopol base.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:57, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
40 year old border dispute between Norway and Russia settled
Unfortunately none of our articles even describe this conflict which is one of the two most important outstanding issues between the countries, the other being pollution from a Russian nickel plant. __meco (talk) 10:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
This seems to be a rather obscure diplomatic event to the average WP user. It's not getting a lot of media coverage (even in Russia).--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
In elections marred by boycotts and fraud allegations, Omar al-Bashir is re-elected president of Sudan despite facing war crimes charges and an international arrest warrant. (USA Today)
Air Arabia flight makes emergency landing in Pakistan
Air Arabia Flight 521 made an emergency landing at Karachi Airport due to a fire in the cargo hold. Smoke was reported coming from the cargo hold and the pilot decided to divert to Karachi, Pakistan. The plane landed safely at 4:10pm local time. There were no injuries amongst the crew and 155 passengers 23
--Sakitalk 08:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose Emergency landings are surprisingly uncommon, I've been through a few. While it might get coverage, this event shouldn't even have an article, per WP:AIRCRASH. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 08:37, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support -saw this on the news this morning. If this was an average Joe, I would say no, but Norriega is a former (de facto) Panamanian leader --Daviessimo (talk) 06:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment Anybody else on this one? It seems Manuel Noriega has been updated substantially. Grsz11 22:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
For the record, I can live with it, so call it support. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 11:54, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Belgium
Belgium's King Albert accepts prime minister's resignation over language row. Would love to give a source, but has just broken. — Cargoking talk 16:54, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support once we can confirm it. ~DCTalk To Me 16:55, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
SupportWas also nominated earlier. --yousaf465 17:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support the story in general, but suggest that we wait untilthe naming of a new Prime Minister before posting. Commentary in the Spanish press suggests that the wait will not be too long. Physchim62(talk) 17:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Very important story. Truthsort (talk) 19:24, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment New Pm will be new item I think. What do you think ? --yousaf465 02:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I agree with a couple of the comments above; waiting for the new PM might be best since, as I pointed out, the outgoing gov't doesn't even have an article. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The article Leterme II Government has now been created. No idea if it is sufficient for ITN, but it's a start... A new PM may well remain unknown for months (elections in June, and then probably months of negotiations before a new government is formed). Fram (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
A little more prose would be good, but I support the story, obviously- changes of heads of governments, especially when there's a crisis, are inherently ITN-worthy. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
This is ITNR, is it not? Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose The death of a Cardinal got turned down last week; the installation of a Bishop (not an Archbishop or Primate) is definitely too local, and an event that happens far too often anyway. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 01:55, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It's not every day (or ever, basically) we get a chance to post chance to post a culinary story, so I am willing to support given that an extensive update takes place somewhere - presumably in an article about the list (Restaurant (magazine) Top 50). I do not believe any other ranking would come close to the prominence of this list. --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:21, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose It would be nice to get a different type of story up there, but this is the wrong one. I don't know how restaurant rankings fare, but this is still a matter of opinion, more so than almost any other "best" list. Note that the restaurant doesn't even have a three-star rating from Michelin (it's two stars). And I feel part of the listing thing is just a marketing scheme; surely Noma hasn't changed a whole lot in one year, but they must jumble up the listings to make things interesting. Lastly, this doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention from the media. -- tariqabjotu 00:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The list is chosen by a 800+ member committee chosen for their culinary knowledge. Restaurant is just the publisher of the results - their editors don't personally pick the winners. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:54, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose It's more of DYK type.--yousaf465 02:59, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. "It's more international than it ever was, it doesn't just feel like this London-based thing any more". If ITN can have the richest man in the world then why not the best restaurant? --candle•wicke 20:18, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Because richest man in the world is quantitative, and best restaurant is qualitative. -- tariqabjotu 20:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
An inquiry is launched as at least 80 schoolgirls in different Kunduz schools are poisoned this week; the Taliban, opposed to female education, denies any knowledge. (BBC)(Japan Today)(Reuters)
Strong support: I have even nominated IPL for ITNR on talk page. I think this should be added to WP ITNR as it is just once an year event and one of most watched event across cricketing world. --GPPande 10:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
strong support. also add to ITNR -- Ashish-g55 13:11, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support - major tournament of a very popular sport. 2010 Indian Premier League is the correct article to link to. The update appears to be 3 sentences of prose, which is probably sufficient, however I would prefer a bit more. I would also support ITNR. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:22, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose We haven't any record of posting it earlier if I'm correct, I will quote the ICC's chairman in this reagrd "IPL is an India's Local tournament...". Also it has got too many match fixing and other controversies that I don't think neutrality tag is going any where soon. --yousaf465 17:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
since when are local tournaments off limits (i would rather not give examples... i can though)? If you look at the players that participated in tournament with the flags besides them then you will see its not that local either. And it was posted last year. -- Ashish-g55 18:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Strong support would support placing in ITN/R. this is a truly international tournament whether Pakistani's are invited or not. --Wikireader41 (talk) 21:55, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose because of league quality. Half the best internationals are not there because of international duty, and also, 63% of the playing positions are reserved for Indians, so you have the situation where top-5 world-ranked players such as Daniel Vettori and Muttiah Muralitharan are sitting on the bench while uncapped 20-yo Indian players with less than a year in first-class cricket are playing because of a quota. The quality of play is significantly below international standards at world cups, champions trophy etc. It is far from being the highest standard of the sport. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:26, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The top three teams from last year's IPL went to the 2009 Champions League Twenty20 and came 5th, 6th and 10th out of 12, if you use points and net run rate as the criteria. While other domestic club tournaments go up such as NBA, UEFA Champions League, they are clearly the top league in their sport with 90%+ of the best players actually on the park, not sub-par quota players. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:39, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
i'm not exactly sure how international duty or 63% of the playing positions are reserved for Indians or that the players somehow came 5th, 6th and 10th matter to why IPL should go up or not (and have you looked at the big names that actually did play?). Its a highly prestigious league watched by 1.5 or so+ billion people around the world... The fact that people from around the world wanna play but are restricted alone gives it quite a bit of notability. -- Ashish-g55 00:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Because the standard of competition is far from the highest in the given field. 1.5_billion assumes that everyone in the cricket world watches, which they do not. If popularity is the determiner of whether it goes up or not then ITN should be filled up with Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan etc and the results of American Idol or The Biggest Loser ahead of a parliamentary election. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
i did not assume entire cricket world watches it. that would make it around 2.2 bil... -- Ashish-g55 01:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose, and strongest possible opposition to ITNR. See Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news/Recurring_items#Cricket:_IPL for discussions that were held last month on exactly this topic. This is a domestic league with virtually zero interest outside the subcontinent, and is in no way the highest level of the sport (nor even the particular format). Modest Geniustalk 01:22, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
'Zero interest outside the subcontinent'? I find that a bit of an exaggeration. Certainly it involves players from outside the subcontinent. It's broadcast all over the world. Even if we only count interest there, the 'subcontinent' includes at least four very populous countries.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment since when did Pakistan become half the subcontinent ??? IPL is one of the fastest growing sports leagues in the world 'and by a vast distance the most commercially successful cricketing venture since Victorian Englishmen first started charging people to watch'2425--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose as YellowMonkey and Modest Genius say, this isn't the 'international' competition that some people try and claim it is, and while it does have a number of talented players, it is also missing a number of talented players. The strict media controls make it idfficult to watch the sport outside of India, particularly if you can't watch it live. Maybe the winner of the Champions League Twenty20 should get posted on here, but not just the IPL. Harriastalk 05:54, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - we have the 2010 ICC World Twenty20 occurring in a few weeks, which is a far bigger interntational event that should be posted. I would also agree that we are better posting the winner of the Champions League Twenty20, which features the winning teams from all of the major domestic twenty20 leagues, of which the IPL is only one league --Daviessimo (talk) 07:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Well, I was going to abstain, but in the light of the match-fixing allegations, strongest possible oppose- it's not the highest competition in the sport, the figures of billions of viewers are disproportionate and an exaggeration, the quality of play is, as I understand it, not much better than English county cricket and now it seems the play wasn't even honest. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:39, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per YellowMonkey and HJ Mitchell. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
i still dont understand what honesty has to do with it going up or not, they are only allegations. i just find it interesting that NCAA is somehow more internationally notable/more watched than IPL (i dont think i need to even prove that thats not true). but i guess when it comes to posting sporting events in north america ITN criteria's dont really apply. -- Ashish-g55 21:04, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Well all the baseball, ice hockey and basketball in the world does gravitate to the MLB/NHL and NBA; they play in the US leagues and leave their home leagues, and choose club over country, unlike the IPL because the internationals have not chosen club over country and are absent representing their country (and rightly so). As for NCAA I didn't support that basketball one, and as far as swimming goes, most of the swimming world (US, Europe, the few Africans and a minority of Japanese and Australian) do go through NCAA because there is no money in the sport (apart from Australian/Asian funding and communist conscription) and the free uni is actually worth more. The NCAA swimming is actually closer to World/Olympic standard than IPL is to international cricket. And as for this red herring about "popularity" and "notability", sporting merit has long been the criteria for ITN, not money/spam/advertising machine/TV figures. Even second-tier tennis tournaments or cycling classics (above the rest but below grand slams/tours) eg Cincinnatti, Indian Wells, Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Queens etc, or Paris-Roubaix, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, Paris-Nice have a higher turnout % of the top players than the IPL. You are India's answer to Mwalcoff and this "US Champions=World Champions" whether you are a NRI/PIO or not. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 01:28, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Easy with the ridiculous personal attacks. You do not know where i am from nor am i trying to represent any country here. if you knew me any better then you would not have thrown around random accusations of me being India's answer or whatever. There are 5 supports i see above besides me... and my point was NCAA basketball was posted regardless of whether you supported it or not. And this not being posted only shows how north american sports dont need the same criteria as others. I will stop here since decent conversation most likely wont take place any more. -- Ashish-g55 05:57, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Ok time out... To be fair to Ashish, his userpage states he is Canadian and unless there was some mad invasion last night, Canada is not part of India! I would also have to disagree with the assertion that NCAA sports are always top level. The only reason the NCAA item was posted is because, as with a lot of US items, a load of users who never normally comment on a story all of a sudden appeared to proclaim their support and accuse those who opposed of some form of anti-American Euro-Asian-communist conspiracy. At the end of the day, people outside of America have heard of the likes Michael Jordan or Shaquille O'Neal and I'm fairly certain its not down to the prowess in college. On the subject of the IPL, I think many opposes have touched on this, but the fundamental issue for me is that the importance and popularity of this tournament outside the subcontinent is being hugely overblown and given that it is not the top level of twenty20 cricket (and thus can't get included on that ITN clause ;) there is no convincing argument for this to be included. --Daviessimo (talk) 07:12, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Yeah, on hindsight posting NCAA was a bad idea. –HowardtheDuck 12:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Perhaps that's true but the NCAA item was supported overwhelmingly by mostly users who do regularly post at ITN/C and there weren't any accusations of "anti-American Euro-Asian-communist conspiracy", or even just anti-Americanism. Anyway, I think the NCAA is mostly irrelevant here. --Johnsemlak (talk) 17:12, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
"And as for this red herring about "popularity" and "notability", sporting merit has long been the criteria for ITN, not money/spam/advertising machine/TV figures." I don't agree with this premise. I haven't seen any ITN criteria that make sporting merit the single or even primary criteria for choosing sports items. We tend to prefer sports events with an international profile--that's the criterion I see applied most often. However, I believe that the economic impact and popularity of sports should be considered when evaluating sports items along with sporting merit. If sporting merit were the single consideration, then we should ax the Ashes from ITNR since its a competition between only two countries which aren't at the top of the world cricket rankings. However, we post that series due to its cultural significance and its popularity.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)reply
British government ordered to pay $650 million to Iran
Please start a wikipage for this arbitration case. It's hard to say Yes or No without first reading what you want to showcase on ITN/MainPage. --PFHLai (talk) 03:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't know what to do with it or where it belongs. I was just looking for the thoughts and opinions of others. --candle•wicke 03:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support This is an odd bit and surely anathema to the UK administration. I'm for it. __meco (talk) 06:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Obviously British media will not report it. Anyway I think update the article and then post it. Just post it now.--yousaf465 07:44, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Weak support. Not an every day event, but hardly Earth-shattering either. The blurb should make it clear why the compensation is being paid: something like: The United Kingdom is ordered to pay Iran$650 million owed from a cancelled 1970s weapons contract.Physchim62(talk) 08:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Switch to Oppose per Dumelow below. Physchim62(talk) 14:49, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It is being reported in the UK Telegraph and Independent. I suspect it is not getting much coverage because the Telegraph says the court case was decided in April last year and the MoD is now waiting for Iran to officially apply to get its money back. In addition Iran will not actually receive the money, it will go into a holding account totalling a billion dollars that cannot be transferred to Iran due to EU sanctions. Finally the money will not affect the UK as the government allocated £486 million to the High Court in 2002 prior to the judgement and it has only been ordered to repay £390 million. In summary: it happened a year ago, the funds are available but Iran has not asked for them and will not legally be able to receive them - Dumelow (talk) 10:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support: Significant decision concerning relations of the two countries. --GPPande 10:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Clarification? In light of what Dumelow has said, and the changes he made to the article, what's the story here? The case was decided a year ago and the article doesn't make it clear what is relevant and news in April 2010. -- tariqabjotu 10:52, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - evidently the actual event that happened yesterday was that it was revealed the British government is now stop refusing to pay the year-old judgment. That isn't a big enough event to make ITN, in my opinion. Also 650 million is peanuts to the government. As near as I can tell, the event has drawn almost zero international coverage at this time. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:30, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
What would be the target article?--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:30, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support posting the real results: Tsegaye Kebede wins men's in 2:05:18; Liliya Shobukhova wins women's in 2:21:59. That is, assuming an appropriate target is found and updated. Oppose posting the many novelty "records" broken.--ThaddeusB (talk) 02:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment I get the impression you didn't read that BBC article, Candlewicke. -- tariqabjotu 03:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support the major results if an article gets an update; but all the so-called "records" are utterly meaningless. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 03:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support but the winners only. On a side note, perhaps the Boston, NY, and London marathons could make it to ITNR. Other major ones could be added too (the three I've mentioned are what I'd consider the biggest, but I'm not an expert on the field). ~DCTalk To Me 03:06, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I concur that those are the biggest three and are ITNR worthy. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It seems a bit arbitrary to just choose those three. If we are going to pick some to put in ITNR, I would assume we should pick all 5 marathons in the World Marathon Majors. --TorsodogTalk 13:52, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
So, what happened at the 2010 London Marathon? Please stick at least a decent paragraph or two of prose (+Refs) to summarize what happened this year into the London Marathon article. With no updating, we have no updated wikipage to showcase on ITN. --PFHLai (talk) 03:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I don't think this merits displacing other items of real news from their spots on ITN. __meco (talk) 06:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Per meco. --GPPande 10:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment--The five World Marathon Majors are New York, Boston (posted just this April), Chicago, London, and Berlin. It does make sense to post all five as a matter of consistency. However, I personally think that's probably too many marathons to post every year--1-2 seems to be enough to me. Marathon articles aren't particularly well developed incidentally I've noticed. That said, I really don't know enough about the sport to say which marathon to choose. Boston is the oldest marathon by some distance. The New York one is also very important however (the London marathon was inspired by the New York marathon as mentioned in is article). It'd be good to get some comment by someone with some expertise in the matter. On this year's London marathon, we still need a decent target article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
In my estimation the level of prominance goes: Boston, London, New York, Berlin, Chicago. Boston and London get a lot more coverage than the other 3. As such, I would support Boston+London; Boston+London+New York; or all 5 as ITNR. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:37, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
All five seems fine to me. ~DCTalk To Me 16:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't know about New York and Chicago- Berlin generally goes up because it's a fast course and records are typically set there. SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Meco's rationale is weak in that we aren't supposed to be opposing items based on a preference for the position of current items and we're going to be due an update before long anyway. Personally, I think we should post all 5 of the major mrathons- it's only 5 a year after all and we already posted Boston. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment: We still need an update. I don't think adding substantial prose to London Marathon is justified, so teh options are are a stand-alone 2010 London Marathon page or an update to the individual runner pages. If people express a preferance, I'll be happy to do an update this evening. I also agree with the comment above - our marathon coverage in general is pretty weak. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I'd say to update the winner's pages. That's how we worked it for the Boston Marathon. ~DCTalk To Me 16:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Something like '''Tsegaye Kebede''' List of winners of the London Marathon|wins the Men's London Marathon; '''Liliya Shobukhova''' wins the women's event. could work. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:54, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I decided to create 2010 London Marathon in light of a comment in the Telegraph that "nobody remembers the winners". It probably needs another paragraph or so before it can be posted. There are plenty of free images on Flickr, but I've yet to see one that would be really useful for ITN. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Looks good. I'd post it myself, but since I voted I'll leave that to someone else. --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
P.S. In a couple hours we'll have more space again when the new FA rolls on, so the complaint about bumping a recent story will be moot. --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Posted. Nice work everyone. A bit short of time at the mo so if someone else wnats to update the pic pleas ego ahead - Dumelow (talk) 23:22, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Don't think the boy was one of the most prominent writers of his time at all, and the article has little on his actual death. f o x 14:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
For those who don't know: BBCf o x 15:51, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the link, Fox. I'm afraid I have to go with an oppose based on that and the quality of our article. An interesting gentleman, most definitely- interesting enough that I might do some work on the article, but I'm afraid his death is just not significant enough for ITN. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose--not that prominent of a writer. No major awards won.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose I don't see a significant level of prominence. Truthsort (talk) 16:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
50 dead in post election violence in Sudan
(BBC) 50 people have died in after a company of 120 men of the the South Sudan army came under attack by nomadic Darfuri Arabs. Sudanese nomadic conflicts (an article probably familiar to ITN regulars) is a possibility for an update - Dumelow (talk) 13:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
On second thoughts I think I'll start a new article (and link it to the other one), there seems to be enough sources about this - Dumelow (talk) 13:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Appears to be a significant attack, even for Darfur. However the article should probably be expanded further. ~AH1(TCU) 13:53, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support on expansion. f o x 14:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support posting eventually. I raised an NPOV concern I raised with Dumelow here. Admins should check this before posting. Input from others appreciated.resolved --Chaser (talk) 16:14, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Man that is a lot of deaths for this. Truthsort (talk) 16:18, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I would support (basically per Truthsort, also because the election had received a reasonable amount of international coverage before it happened), but I don't see an update worthy of the name. If we post this, we have to be clear why it is important and we have to give our readers details: without that, there's no point in adding it to the Main Page. Physchim62(talk) 14:53, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
A presidential election is to be held in Austria - Dumelow (talk) 23:36, 2 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment. The incumbent president, Heinz Fischer, is almost certain to be re-elected: he has about 80% approval ratings, including in voter intentions. His re-election is almost "not news", although we do have free images of him ;) Discuss! Physchim62(talk) 01:36, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
support regardless -- Ashish-g55 06:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
If I understand correctly, the President of Austria is a figurehead. That, plus lack of surprise in the win, and the general lack of media coverage as far as I can see leads me to Oppose, though if we must do as per ITNR then that's that.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Lack of media coverage? I've just gone through all the bare URLs and there is coverage going back to early 2009. --candle•wicke 03:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose per the article- "Though theoretically entrusted with great power by the constitution, in practice the President acts, for the most part, merely as a ceremonial figurehead." HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
But what about the Queen? "She is politically neutral and by convention her role is largely ceremonial" :-) --candle•wicke 03:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support but after the results have been published.--Avala (talk) 14:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support After some significant cleanup is done to that article; all but one reference is a bare URL. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 22:41, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Problem solved, whew! :-) --candle•wicke 03:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
@Candlewicke. When I mentioned the Austrian president was a figurehead (a word from our article) I knew the Queen comparison would come up. Elizabeth II is the queen of hundreds of millions of people and has been for over 50 years. Any change of the UK monarch would be the largest global news item by some distance. Absolutely no comparison with the President of Austria, a figurehead leader of around 8 million whose election is generating very little media coverage. I favor a general policy that we don't post the elections of only figurehead/ceremonial leaders and we consider the Queen to be an exception. We post A LOT of elections and changes in heads of state. I don't object the the policy generally but I think we can draw a line somewhere.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I was just thinking of raising exactly that point of WT:ITN ;) The other example is the Pope, who is Head of State of about one square mile, but whose death would be a no-brainer for ITN. This presidential election is not a no-brainer: that doesn't matter either way, as long as we recognize the fact. Physchim62(talk) 14:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The pope is, of course, the head of one of the world's largest religions, so I don't see that as a problem.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The death of the Pope should, IMO, produce two ITN items- the death of Benedict XVI, and the election of his successor, events that will be separated by at least a week, with no real upper bound. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 15:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Posted, although I got to say the update is a little weak. But it is an election, so I'm not sure what else there is to say. I probably would have opposed this nomination myself, but the people appear to have spoken. -- tariqabjotu 18:20, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Really? I think its spot at DYK is good enough. This is a story that has caught attention worldwide, but it seems primarily because it's an OMG-Muslims-angry-again story. It's quite obvious that this is nowhere near the scale of the Danish cartoons; it's just one group that no one has ever heard of making grandiose threats and a television network being over-cautious in response to them. And, as I said, it's the media jumping all over an otherwise non-major story. But kudos to the writers of 200 (South Park) (the article, I mean). -- tariqabjotu 11:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I disagree with you. The Islamist onslaught on the core Western value of freedom of expression now has taken its latest toll as perhaps the least authority-conforming bastion also cowers to their terror strategy. I think South Park constitutes a milestone in this respect, and a very sad one indeed, one that warrants general attention. __meco (talk) 13:14, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
You didn't even attempt to hide your editorialization. Further reason why this shouldn't be on the Main Page; we're not here to make a point. -- tariqabjotu 01:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Any debate on the nomination is moot at this point. Items are sorted by the date they occurred, not the date posted. Thus, even if this was approved instantly, it wouldn't make it on to the template. --ThaddeusB (talk) 13:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I beg to differ, its an ongoing story so technically its still occurring. The law was passed recently but the reactions and other developments are all very recent, its taken a national presence afterwards. Maybe I can rephrase or re-write the heading?--Theo10011 (talk) 13:31, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
How can the nomination window have expired on this story? The episode aired on April 21, and its posted on the news portal on the 22nd. __meco (talk) 13:40, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Because all current stories occurred on the 22nd or later. As it so happens, we have had an unusally large number of stories go up the last few days.--ThaddeusB (talk) 15:06, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I'm not so familiar with ITN guidelines, but do they actually prevent this from being posted out of chronological order if a consensus were to gather for it? __meco (talk) 15:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I suppose anything could happen, but if posted it would have to be at the very bottom of the list which means it would drop off as soon as another story was approved. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Sorry I should have indicated my comment above was for Thaddeus for moving my suggestion about the Arizona Immigration law below, merging it with the older post and not about South park. As for the south park news item, its not notable enough, and the story has been overshadowed as well, so I would Oppose, sorry.--Theo10011 (talk) 14:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
What to you mean the story has been overshadowed? __meco (talk) 14:08, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Ok let me rephrase that, the story is of lesser prominence now than before when episode 201 aired, almost 4 days later. The episode that started the controversy is more than 2 weeks old, the threat- about one and a half week, from what I have seen, after Comedy central's censorship there were no news-worthy developments, only reactions. this is ofcourse overlooking what someone already mentioned above, its a TV show, the notability of the story could be easily questioned especially for a Non-US reader. Thank you--Theo10011 (talk) 14:18, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
You vastly underestimate the circulation of this series worldwide, and of the ongoing news coverage this story is garnering. Go on Google News and try searching in different language editions and you will see this. __meco (talk) 14:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Trust me when I say this Meco, I dont underestimate south park's world-wide popularity, being a loyal viewer myself, currently there are 1800 sources covering the story on google news. Its just that the story wasn't notable enough, compared to some of their previous complications and controversies, it was an empty threat on some random forum that faded away. The voter above for example stated the exact same two concerns as well.--Theo10011 (talk) 14:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The issue isn't whether the threat was real or not, but how the network decided to act, and reactions to that cowering. __meco (talk) 14:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose, I don't think this is quite notable enough for ITN, and it's a little stale now unfortunately. f o x 14:28, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I encourage you to go on Google News to ascertain that the coverage is worldwide and ongoing. __meco (talk) 14:34, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Was the story of the British teacher naming the teddy Muhammad put up? f o x 15:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The coverage is worldwide, yes, but so are many news items in the entertainment industry. Let's wait and see if this censorship actually causes something significant to happen, such as large scale protests, or drastic changes in government policies/laws regarding TV broadcasts. If it does nothing but incite a few loud mouths to talk louder, sorry, oppose. --PFHLai (talk) 15:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Obvious Oppose Just a simple case of censorship to respect another religions sentiments. Not a major event by any standards. --yousaf465 15:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
oppose for some obvious reasons stated above. although not for ITN, it is a major story on more moral standard... with issues against censorship, terrorism etc we will probably hear about this for long time. but wikipedia does not need to deal with that nor should it. -- Ashish-g55 01:30, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose A case of censorship on a TV show is not that notable in the grand scheme of things. HonouraryMix (talk) 14:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
In separate events, 29 people are killed in a suicide attack on a prison van, six NATO oil tankers are torched, and the Pakistan Army attacked Taliban fighters. (Arab News)
A retired priest says he was ignored when he spoke out about Belgium's longest-serving bishop having sexually abused a boy years before his admission and immediate resignation yesterday. (CBC)
Tens of thousands of people rally and lay flowers at a monument in Yerevan to the victims on the 95th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. (Al Jazeera)
11 deaths confirmed so far, with much damage being reported in the deep south. As of 545pm Central time, over 40 tornadoes have been reported April 24th alone. Ks0stm(T•C•G) 00:21, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I might support, but I don;t know much about tornado seasons. How uncommon is this for the US? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
For April, pretty uncommon; for the sometime during the season, not all that uncommon. That said, I support a blurb for the April 24 outbreak which has killed at least 9 people. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:34, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Is 9 a particularly large death toll for a tornado? --candle•wicke 00:40, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Meh. There will be worse outbreaks over the summer. Weak oppose. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 00:44, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
If our list is accurate this will be the most fatalities from a US tornado since May 2008. Granted 2009 was a particularly light year for tornadoes. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:57, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Neutral. If we post this, we must be clear as to why it is unusual. Tornados are not uncommon, and they can be deadly: why is this outbreak different from the others? Physchim62(talk) 00:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Because 11 deaths and over 90 reported tornadoes within 3 days is unusual, especially in April. The last outbreak of this size was the February 2009 tornado outbreak in terms of deaths and the May 2009 derecho series in terms of number of tornadoes. Ks0stm(T•C•G) 01:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Last year doesn't make it seem particularly unusual... We would not normally post a story along the lines of "building collapses, 10 people killed" or "10 people killed on the roads of Somecountry yesterday": both are (sadly) far too common. Physchim62(talk) 01:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Given that the United States averages less than 100 deaths a year from tornadoes since 1998, this could very well account for a tenth or more of the tornado deaths in the United States this year. Ks0stm(T•C•G) 02:36, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Could or will beyond any doubt? --candle•wicke 02:39, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Most likely will, but it's still possible that it won't as we don't know how the rest of the season will turn out. If you go by the statistical average for the last ten years, it's almost for sure that it will. Ks0stm(T•C•G) 02:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
This has been the worst severe weather of the year thus far in the US, and this outbreak isn't even over! Truthsort (talk) 04:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. This is a major outbreak and the biggest one this year (even bigger than the unusual one in January)! How about "Large tornadoes strike Yazoo City and Durant during a tornado outbreak, killing at least 11 people and causing extensive damage."? ~AH1(TCU) 14:08, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose there will be worse outbreaks later in the summer. Posting an item in April because it is the biggest one of the year so far makes no sense. --PlasmaTwa2 20:36, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Update one of the tornadoes has been preliminary rated as EF4 with a phenomenal 149 mile long path. Ks0stm(T•C•G) 01:37, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
That definitely makes the event more unusual, but I already voted support once. :) --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:51, 27 April 2010 (UTC)reply
He is "recognised as one of the best poets of the second half of the 20th century" The Independent. "One of the finest poets of our time ... In Australia he was considered English, and in England he was considered Australian" The Guardian. He won several awards including the Whitbread prize for poetry (1988), the Queen's Gold Medal for Poetry and the Forward Poetry Prize (2002) plus many more. He was also shortlisted for the T. S. Eliot Prize. Better Than God was published last year and The Rest on the Flight: Selected Poems is forthcoming so he was still active at the time of his death and beyond it. Obituary in The Daily Telegraph. --candle•wicke 01:18, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I admit a complete lack of knowledge with the subject matter, bit the fact the the majority of his article is just a list troubles me a bit as it suggests no one cared enough to write about him. Random89 16:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - ordinary death of someone is not exceptionally notable. As near as I can tell, the death appears to have attracted very little international attention. --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - This seems staggeringly non-notable.--WaltCip (talk) 19:24, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. From what I gather, this was pretty much inevitable. The real story would have been his release imho. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per WP:BLP if nothing else. "Man accused of worst crime of 21st century, not guilty, given compensation" isn't the kind of story I want on the main page. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 01:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Seven people, including six police officers and a civilian, are killed and two other officers are injured in a shoot-out with suspected gang hitmen in Ciudad Juárez. (BBC)(CNN)(The New York Times)
Arizona governor Jan Brewer signs the state's controversial immigrant detention bill into law. Supporters say it will take 'the handcuffs' off police; opponents say it will violate people's civil rights. (The Washington Post)
We only have 100 words of prose, with only 1 bare URL as a reference. Let's wait and allow the article to grow a bit. Stubby pages should be avoided. Also, pls add to P:CE first, per Wikipedia:In the news#Procedural. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 18:38, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment: I do not believe the incident is notable enough for an article. The material would be better merged into waragi then left as a stand-alone article. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:22, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
After a look for references, I have to say I agree this needs to be merged. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 20:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. I added it to the portal yesterday but didn't expect anyone to notice it. Now I have found the time to update it. 80 people die from blindness and multiple organ failure after drinking waragi(pictured) in Kabale. --candle•wicke 02:36, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. This is a rather unusual wine safety incident. ~AH1(TCU) 14:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Is it going to be posted before time runs out? --candle•wicke 18:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The consensus still is pretty weak, IMO. And the page is awfully short for a stand-alone article, especially one featured on the main page. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:19, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Concur as to the quality of the article- it only has 4 lines of prose- as to the consensus, I'll support if/when it's improved if that helps. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
If this is posted (I'm neutral), I think the blub should specify that it is methanol poisoning that killed the people: it is a well known hazard of drinking home-made spirits. Physchim62(talk) 19:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The article has a lot more than four lines of prose. The update alone is twice that. --candle•wicke 20:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I wouldn't say it must be, but it would make sense. It still needs work, though, before it's even worth linking to it from ITN never mind bolding it. Two paragraphs of well sourced prose and a little bit of a lead section would do nicely. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:57, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I still see no justification for the existence of 2010 Uganda mass poisoning, so I am against linking to it. If there is any unique material there it should be merged to waragi and redirected. (I have started a merge discussion.) I am neutral on an update linking only to waragi. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:15, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The article waragi has been updated sufficiently for some time now. Waragi can be the bold article as mentioned above. A separate article is not really necessary. --candle•wicke 23:21, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Agreed that waragi is sufficiently updated. I do not object to it making ITN. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:06, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Posted Not sure about the picture though. Is that a specific brand of waragi in that picture? It's okay for an article about waragi in general (with the poison case as just a section), but we don't want to inadvertently suggest that that's the poisonous waragi right there. -- tariqabjotu 00:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Police officers killed in shoot-out
Seven people, including six police officers and a civilian, are killed and two other officers are injured in a shoot-out with suspected gang hitmen. (BBC)(CNN)(The New York Times) I don't know if there is an article yet but one usually appears. --candle•wicke 00:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Mexican drug violence is, sadly, hardly news any more. Oppose unless a pretty good article appears, and then I'd just commit to reconsidering. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 01:55, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
This is currently the lead story on Google News and Yahoo News and the websites of The New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal and L.A. Times and is "above the fold" at CNN.com. Apparently the law will require immigrants (presumably only noncitizens) to carry immigration documents with them and allows authorities to make the immigrants produce them on demand -- the first time people in the U.S. will have to carry identification documents by law. It will also "require police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants" according to the article on Gov. Jan Brewer. Although a state law, this is clearly a national story; President Obama criticized the law, which is very unusual for state legislation.
Yes, I know we rejected a Brazilian state law story below, but that was not really "in the news" in the English-speaking world.
Unfortunately, there is no article on the law yet, as far as I know. There are a few paragraphs about it in the Brewer article. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Also the lead story in Reforma of Mexico City, La Jornada of Mexico City, etc. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. This does not appear to be an unusual level of restriction on immigration, and is rather local in scope. Plus there's no article. Modest Geniustalk 22:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I'll give you the "no article" (yet) point, but if it was "not ... unusual," do you think it would be the lead story of every major paper in the country? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:48, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't know. Are the actions of a single American state of 6 million people more important than a single Brazilian state of 20 million people (Toyota Corolla discussion below)? I'm unconvinced, particularly due to the very large difference in population, and disagree that being in the English-speaking world is more important (if that is the case the majority of ITNs would be from a very small part of the world). There is already an explosion on the Main Page so the U.S. is being represented at the moment. Considering Mexico borders this part of the United States and the topic is immigration I'm not fully certain if this featuring in the Mexican media increases its importance. --candle•wicke 23:36, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't know if it's a fair comparison, because the immigration law is a major national story in two countries, and I don't know how much media attention the Toyota story got even from the national media in Brazil. Even if we were to compare apples and apples, we have to consider that 52.9% of English Wikipedia users are in the U.S. and 0.6% are in Brazil. That doesn't mean Brazilian items should never be on ITN or that 53% of ITN items should be from the U.S., but it does indicate that we don't have to treat a U.S. item like a Brazilian item. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:42, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose it's a state law that has no impact on U.S. policy. Also, it may not withstand its first legal challenges.Shinerunner(talk) 23:54, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose State law- though in a border state. (If Rhode Island had passed this law, it wouldn't be making this much news) We've seen this before; the legal challenges are surely being written as we discuss this, some court will accept it, and by the time it's either struck down or enforced, everyone not involved will have forgotten. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 00:16, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose per Shinerunner - no significant effect on U.S. federal policy.--WaltCip (talk) 04:08, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I know that this has previously been suggested and rejected on account of only being a state issue, but the reaction to the law is gaining momentum. It has been the one of the top 3 stories on google News with over 3000 sources and gaining 26 . It has garnered strong reactions from President Obama and the hispanic community among many others, with the climate bill currently being delayed 27 to make room for Immigration discussion. I have added to Wikipedia article about the law with relevant information in Arizona SB1070. I think the story deserves another consideration, since it has taken the center stage nationally and might lead to further important developments. Thank you.--Theo10011 (talk) 12:26, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Tip: You may want to cite 10 news articles from at least ten countries from all six inhabited continents, then we'll see... –HowardtheDuck
What? really? is the Austrian presidential election suggested above more relevant, are there 3000 stories linking to it. Anyway, here are some relevant News articles CNNBBCNew York TimesAPSydney Morning HeraldVancouver sun (not all six continents but close).--Theo10011 (talk) 13:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment: article is currently 1 sentence long, so more text will be needed before it is mainpage ready. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:44, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. I'll have a go at expanding the article now. - JuneGloom07Talk? 19:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I don't think this deserves ITN. Bombings in Iraq occur frequently with death tolls in multiple dozens. They have very little political impact, except of course cumulatively. __meco (talk) 20:23, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support 69 is a lot of deaths in one day. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 23:33, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Note: Several bombs detonated in several areas. The article describes at least five bombs, though there seem to have been several more as well. --candle•wicke 23:39, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support - notable event.--Avala (talk) 16:30, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The story is probably ITN-worthy, but the wikiarticle, merely with <120 words of prose, needs some beefing up before being showcased on MainPage. Stubby pages should be avoided. --PFHLai (talk) 18:24, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I agree - the article is still too short for my tastes. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I'll try to expand the first thing in the morning (approx 8 hours from now) to make it ITN ready if no one else steps up in the mean time. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:53, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Article is ready to go now. Note that it has been renamed April 2010 Baghdad bombings since the violence continued on the 24th. Death toll stands at 72 for Friday's attacks plus 13 on Saturday. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)reply
BBC. Team of 30 doctors and 22 hour operation is what it took to do a total face transplant. pretty encyclopedic if u ask me. Will add to article in a bit. -- Ashish-g55 18:39, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment: There is at least one previous claimant to "first full face transplant". Thus if this goes up, which I support given that the article is sufficiently updated, I would prefer it use the wording "most comprehensive face transplant to date". Article will, at minimum, need a proper lead in addition to the update. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:54, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Calling it the "most comprehensive face transplant to date" doesn't really make it sound like news. Is there a way to figure out if this one truely is the world's first full? --PlasmaTwa2 00:02, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Greek government seeks activation of EU/IMF bailout
Support - Came here to nominate myself... Last time it was discussed people said wait until it is accepted; it has been accepted now. Could use a larger update though. --ThaddeusB (talk) 12:24, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
I wouldn't post 2010 European sovereign debt crisis in its current state. The lead is far too long and the references are a mix of inline refs and raw external links - Dumelow (talk) 13:00, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It's an awful article from a MOS perspective. I actually thought this subject would have an article of its own by now. Maybe Economy_of_Greece#2010_debt_crisis? I've added the same text I added to the sovereign debt article. --RA (talk) 13:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support with modifications, event is WP:ITN/R and it seems like quite a lot of people are interested in this one. I think the text should include a link to X-37B OTV-1, which is the main article for this mission. How about An Atlas V rocket launches a prototype military orbital space plane, the X-37B on its maiden flight." --GW… 10:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
"One of Toyota's most popular cars". An acceleration problem was "putting in danger the lives of occupants". BBC. --candle•wicke 01:39, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose - the actions of a single Brazilian state aren't ITN worthy. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support that state, Minas Gerais, has about 20,000,000 residents, or more than 55 or so countries. And the Corolla is the world's most popular car. ~DCTalk To Me 03:42, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose: Just because the state has a huge human population does not mean every news from its local newspaper would go up on ITN. How many of the state residents already own or plan to buy Corolla? Does this have any implications on Brazil-Japanese relations? We need to judge the news based on its impact. --GPPande 07:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose. The recalls, etc., are ITN worthy (and an ITN post already appeared in January), but I'd say this is only a minor addendum to Toyota's problems and not by itself worthy of another post. Dragons flight (talk) 07:37, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose We've already posted the major events in this saga. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 23:34, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The wreck is estimated to be leaking 8,000 barrels of crude oil per day, and may leak up to 700,000 gallons of diesel fuel depending on how much burned in the explosion and ensuing fire. (CNN)
Ahmad Sabah, a Palestinian with a Gaza ID card, claims the new Israeli military order on deportations is behind his release to Gaza instead of the West Bank where he lived before his detainment in 2001. (BBC)(Al Jazeera)
Pro-Daniel Ortega protesters in Nicaragua injure three opposition politicians while blockading parliament to prevent the overturning of a presidential decree. (Al Jazeera)
A Utrecht court acquits the Dutch arm of the Arab European League of hate crime charges relating to the publication of a cartoon questioning the Holocaust. The publication was intended to highlight double standards after MP Geert Wilders was not put on trial for distributing cartoons of Muhammad. (BBC)
Support This is an issue that has going on for a while and this latest attack seems appropriate for the ITN. Truthsort (talk) 01:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Now, that was a strange order of events. Is this your idea of a consensus adequate to post an ITN item? __meco (talk) 09:08, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
There were four supports and just one oppose. Further, your oppose seemed to be based on the fact that the event is no longer timely. I presumed that was in regards to the point about "rising tensions", which no longer, at least according to the article, appear to rising. So, I change the wording to a "peak" in tensions, which does not necessarily indicate that the peak is still continuing. But, to answer your question, yes, it is my idea of adequate consensus for ITN, which requires that we address items within a relatively short period of time, unless no consensus is clear. -- tariqabjotu 13:21, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment: The article hasn't been updated in any way. Are the released pictures of any particular significance other than being the first ones from SDO? --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:36, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose, because we already posted the launch. Nice images though. Modest Geniustalk 12:14, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Pakistan bans neon signs
Pakistan has banned neon signs and extended the official weekend in response to growing Energy crisis(BBC)--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:42, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
As worded, that sounds like a DYK hook... Is the serious side of this updated anywhere? --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Now there's a little more context, the background story here looks interesting. A country in such an energy crisis that it's banning neon signs and extending the weekend, it could be ITN-worthy. I'm relucatant to decalre support until the article is developed a little, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Sounds rather serious. --candle•wicke 01:25, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Some of the most significant measures have been announced in this meeting.--yousaf465 04:24, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support. Even as humorous as the neon sign angle may sound, the proportions of the Pakistani energy crisis is now so dire it is surely bordering on threatening the political stability of the country. Perhaps we should unfocus the neon sign ban to make this look less like an DYK item? __meco (talk) 07:08, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Well not that serious that it will result in political unstability, atmost it will result in a resignation of Water and Power minster. Pakistanis are really generous in such cases. --yousaf465 07:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment i think the focus on neon signs shows the gravity of the situation and seriousness of the resolve. how about this blurb,
I think it can be shortened by skipping the phrase "to conserve electricity." I don't think anything would be lost. But it won't go up unless more people voice their support.. __meco (talk) 15:23, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Three supports plus the nominator, one possible support, no opposes at all at this stage. --candle•wicke 19:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Well, it certainly should have been posted ahead of the grenade attack in Thailand... __meco (talk) 09:09, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Posted, regardless of anything to do with Thailand - Dumelow (talk) 09:56, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Belgium
Breaking news: the Belgian government has fallen. Obvious ITN, I suppose. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 10:17, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
This is not a joke. The Open VLD announced a few minutes ago that it will leave the government. Prime Minister Yves Leterme has just arrived at the royal palace, presumably to tender the resignation of the cabinet. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 10:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
It will need an article, anyway. f o x 10:25, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Yes this is going to be true, Burqa is doing it's magic. Google news--yousaf465 13:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
The king hasn't accepted the resignation. So let's wait and see what happens. Modest Geniustalk 14:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support if resignation accepted. Wikireader41 (talk) 14:47, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Support regardless of whether the resignation is accepted. It is news in either case. Thue | talk 20:43, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Well, if the resignation isn't accepted, then a new government will be formed, which would also be ITN/R material: I think we need to wait and see what happens for the moment. I don't see an article, which should be at Leterme II Government under the normal naming system for Belgian government articles. Physchim62(talk) 21:47, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose unless the resignation is accepted If the resignation isn't accepted, he stays PM, so not enough of a grand noteworthy changes happens. However, if the resignation is accepted, obviously it should go up. On an aside, am I the only one who thinks Leterme's making a habit of offering his resignation? This is like his 5th or something over the course of his two terms in office. HonouraryMix (talk) 23:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Let's wait till there's actual, significant change. Political posturing shouldn't be on ITN, imho. --PFHLai (talk) 18:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)reply
April 21
April 21, 2010 (2010-04-21) (Wednesday)
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